I have been taking my sword to class for some time now, using it for practice in a studio. I carry it in its hard case and then held in a soft bag. I intend on performing with it next weekend as part of our troupes show (in a community centre). A random comment form someone has sent me into a mini panic- telling me that i could be arrested if the police were to pull me over and find that in my car, or even for taking it out of my house!! It is a balady scimitar, blunt and balanced for dancing -but as she said 'a sword is a sword'.. I know of other dancers who use swords for performance, and have heard of sword workshops being held ...I kinda assumed I was ok? Is this person right, or just trying to scare me? HELP PLEASE>>>>
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United Kingdom
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Re: swords in public...
Sun, November 11, 2007 - 6:40 AMIf you have a car full of bellydance gear, or you are dressed up to dance- I doubt he's going to drag you in for having possession of a dull sword!
Call your local police station, and question them...make sure if they tell you its fine, to get the officers name, rank and station. And make sure they put something on their computer system about it....then if you do get pulled up- you can say 'well officer so and so of so and so, number 123456 at such and such station said blah blah blah. They have a record of my call on the computer....
Covers your butt, and shows them you're trying to abide by the law. Its what I would do.
But in general- if you're obviously a bellydancer- and you can in fact prove you're on your way to a gig- I'm pretty sure they'd let you on your way. It is a dance prop- nothing more. You couldn't cut butter with it, let alone human skin!
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Re: swords in public...
Sun, November 11, 2007 - 6:50 AMI've never had a problem. The police here will stop and watch me use the swords. I keep mine in a soft gun case and keep them in my trunk. I figure if I get pulled over, I'll just tell them they're there and expect to have to balance one on the side of the road. -
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Re: swords in public...
Sun, November 11, 2007 - 8:05 AMthanks guys, this is what I had thought before her comment, which niggled my brain for some time after as she seemed so certain. I hope this does apply in the UK too- I might have a chat with our local community officer - Thanks ~~X -
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Re: swords in public...
Sun, November 11, 2007 - 5:17 PMpweb.netcom.com/~brlevine/md.txt
People carry rapiers to and from practice all the time. "concealed weapons" laws do not apply to a sword as it is bigger than anything you can readily conceal- it's usually in a case or something obvious.
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Re: swords in public...
Mon, November 12, 2007 - 4:47 AMIts so funny to read this as a while back I had the same fear! It was late at night and I was on my way to a gig. I had my sword out, and at the time, it didnt have a scabbard. So here I am walking down the street with a sword at my side. Thankfully I had my caftan on, full make up and a noticeable bindi on my forehead, so in case the cops said anything it didnt look like I was making it up! Now, I made scabbard just in case!
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Re: swords in public...
Sun, November 11, 2007 - 7:41 PMMy understanding from my SCA days was that it is important to say that it is a costume prop item.
But I agree with others - know your local laws.
Having said that, I think I should ask my cop friends! -
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Re: swords in public...
Sun, November 11, 2007 - 7:51 PMI've carried my dance swords on Washington State ferries before, no one thought anything of it. Then again, weapon laws in the states are different than those in the UK. -
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Re: swords in public...
Mon, November 12, 2007 - 10:50 AMIn Germany, it´s legal to possess and carry a sword, even if it´s sharp, if you´re over 18 and in full mental health.
Unless there is a public event in the area, when it suddenly becomes illegal. So if you´re on your way to training or to a gig, and there´s a football match on that you didn´t know about, you might be in for trouble.
Of course, a rifle case won´t really help, it just makes you more conspicuous.
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Re: swords in public...
Mon, November 12, 2007 - 3:39 PMA number of years ago I tried to find out what Washington state laws covered swords in public and was eventually directed to the ATF because there didn't seem to be any state laws *specifically* aimed at swords rather than knives. The final, less-than-reassuring word was that it was not a problem to carry one so long as no one "felt menaced".
Meh.
That said, in seven years I have never had problems carrying swords--including big honkin' ones like Italian longswords--to or from fencing class in Seattle. A number of our students come to class by bus without incident and in the summer we often move class to a public park. I'd second the advice about never referring to them as "swords", but rather as "dancing props"--or in my case "fencing equipment"--and being dressed for the activity in which you plan to use them. If you can transport them in a case, so much the better. In short, anything that you can do to reassure folks that the sword is a tool for a sane and structured artistic or martial activity is to the good. Also remember, should you attract police attention, that your dancing prop has no sharpened edges and (maybe, I haven't seen your sword) a blunted point as well. It may not even meet the legal definition of a knife in your area.
(I am very, very not a lawyer)
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Re: swords in public...
Mon, November 12, 2007 - 10:43 PMSo I asked my cop friends, and this is what they said:
"I quickly read two penal code sections. 653(k)-switch blade, definition and possession, punishment. 12020 pc- a belly dancing ornamental sword does not meet any of the prohibited weapons. This section is very specific: cane gun, nunchaku,metal knuckles, belt buckle knife, leaded cane, shuriken (AH THIS IS THE BELLY DANCER'S SECRET WEAPON, I KNEW IT!), lipstick case knife, cane sword, shobizue, writing pen knife.
"I think your friend was being fed a bunch of mmmhhhmm. Give me a better description or check out the Attorney General's website and search 12020 PC."
So I did that search, and got to this page: ag.ca.gov/firearms/dwcl/12020.php
Basicaly, you can carry a cane, and you can carry a sword, but you cannot carry a cane sword (that is a sword disguised as a cane - think James Bond villian).
Keep in mind, this is the law in California. -
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Re: swords in public...
Tue, November 13, 2007 - 3:03 AMok, my mind is at ease now. Thank- you everyone!!! ~~~X -
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Re: swords in public...
Tue, November 13, 2007 - 8:14 AMfor what its worth, i don't have a case currently, and not only do i walk down the street with my sword, but take it on the train system with me. but i'm in san francisco - bizarreness is the norm here.
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Re: swords in public...
Tue, November 13, 2007 - 6:03 AM... cane gun, nunchaku,metal knuckles, belt buckle knife, leaded cane, shuriken (...), lipstick case knife, cane sword, shobizue, writing pen knife.
Pretty much the same list as in Germany. (oh, that´s shinobizue or shikomizue, by the way, and yes, I´m a smart-ass). No weapons disguised as "objects of daily use", no hidden weapons, no switchblades, and a few weapons are banned that looked too ninja-ish to the legislative.
The belly dancer´s secret weapon is the deadly throwing tassel. -
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Re: swords in public...
Tue, November 13, 2007 - 7:24 AMHmmm....I own an antique sword cane......didn't think of dancing with it until now.....funny how once I'm told I shouldn't do something I immediately think of ways I could...... -
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Re: swords in public...
Tue, November 13, 2007 - 11:23 AMHeehee.....I thought the same way.......
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Re: swords in public...
Tue, November 13, 2007 - 11:51 AMI have an image of swinging it around as a cane and the end flying off and taking out an audience member. Then I can brandish the sword and dare anyone to complain! -
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Re: swords in public...
Wed, November 14, 2007 - 1:56 AMHmmm... first a cane dance, then a sword dance, without changing props! Now there´s an idea... how do you get a cane sword to balance? ;-) -
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Re: swords in public...
Wed, November 14, 2007 - 7:40 AMI plan on figuring it out today!
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Re: swords in public...
Tue, November 13, 2007 - 10:19 PM> The belly dancer´s secret weapon is the deadly throwing tassel.
;) See
www.suburban-ghawazee.net/image...ce.jpg -
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Re: swords in public...
Wed, November 14, 2007 - 3:23 AMOh that is so good!!LOL!!!....only now i'm worried i might be arrested just for my vibrating shimmies- do you think I need a license for my hips??!!! LOL!! -
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Re: swords in public...
Wed, November 14, 2007 - 6:24 AMYou won´t need a permit if you keep them in the house, but the police may have to confiscate them from you if they think they constitute a public safety risk. Also, you may not cover your hips because that would amount to a concealed weapon.
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Re: swords in public...
Sat, November 17, 2007 - 7:36 PMSo....what if your sword is sharp? Mine is. I've wondered if that would be a problem. -
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Re: swords in public...
Sun, November 18, 2007 - 2:39 AMIn these parts? Nope. Of course it´s easier to explain away as a dancing prop to the police if blunt, but no law in Germany against carrying 3´ of sharpened steel with you. You should be aware of local laws and able to quote them, just in case the policemen aren´t as familiar with them (which is more often the case than you would believe possible).
"Peace knots" securing the crossguard to the scabbard are a good way of reassuring the officers that you are NOT a homicidal maniac, as does a good wrapper, in short, everything that makes the sword difficult to draw in a hurry. Worked for my boyfriend on his way to training. And looking a polite, balanced person helps as well.
There are some issues about the weapon leaving your presence. If you leave a sharpened sword somewhere, you have to store it in a locked container or cupboard to prevent misuse by third parties (especially minors).
That´s the situation in Germany. Of course I know zip about how it is in the US or Canada...
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Re: swords in public...
Sun, November 18, 2007 - 12:03 PMUS dancer here - a police officer friend of mine made the scabbard for my Cas Iberia (which is sharp). Not a problem to carry it around. I just try to be real careful not to threaten anyone with it. ;)
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Re: swords in public...
Thu, November 22, 2007 - 7:53 AMI think enough people here have already told you that carrying a dance sword around is fine!
I was carrying a dance sword of mine unsheathed to a nightclub; as I was crossing South Street a female traffic cop yelled at me wondering if it was a real sword. As I was in full tribal costume at the time, my yelled-back explanation that it was a dance sword seemed to satisfy her.
But that was my old chrome cabaret sword. My Cas Iberia I keep in a soft sheathe-bag of brocade that I sewed myself (leather-lined at the tip to prevent the tip from poking through). I've carried it around in public, even aboard the subway in NYC, and never got challenged.
As the daughter of a cop, I can tell you the only things cops get really agitated about in your car are hidden, easily gotten-to weapons. A sword in a hard case? Fine. A gun in a locked case in the trunk, if you have a proper shooting permit and you are on your way to the range? Just fine. The sword or a knife or a gun hidden under the seat in such a manner that it is clearly intended you mean to pull it out and use it? Hellloooo, handcuffs! Especially in New Jersey. So many drug traffickers navigate the highways of that state cops are always extra leery when they pull someone over.
In summary, feel free to carry the sword in public in a safe and sheathed manner. The cops will enjoy your performance as much as anyone else!
